This conversation

One of sixty-eight. Same opening question, a different world behind the answer.

← All conversations

About this conversation

In this conversation with Ken Wilber, we explore whether radical wholeness could provide the foundation for a Third Attractor. Ken argues that the fragmentation and polarization we see in the world can only be addressed through a genuinely integral approach that includes the many dimensions of human life and development.

We speak about how Integral Theory can move from a framework into lived practice, the importance of education, developmental stages, and the relationship between waking up and growing up. We also explore Being and Becoming, Eros as the evolutionary impulse, and what it might mean to become a more whole human being.

A significant part of our conversation turns to AI. Ken shares his conviction that AI will play an increasingly important role in our future and argues for bringing an integral, holistic perspective into its development.

Ultimately, his message for the Third Attractor is surprisingly simple: move towards wholeness. Learn to wake up, grow up, open up, clean up and show up, and begin applying these different dimensions of wholeness in our own lives and in the systems we create.

Keep listening

68 conversations in all

All conversations

The Science of Futures

How can we consciously shape the future when our present is still so deeply influenced by the stories and systems of the past? In this conversation, futurist Sohail Inayatullah and I explore the power of imagination, the transformation of worldviews, five major shifts facing humanity, and the relationship between spiritual realization and our capacity to co-create a different future.

57 min · 22 Oct 2026 · 106 views

Probability Spaces

What does it mean to consciously participate in the evolutionary movement of life? In this conversation, Alexander Laszlo and I explore Syntony, the dynamic harmony of life, and how love, consciousness, surrender and agency can help us become living expressions of the Third Attractor.

84 min · 14 Oct 2026 · 265 views

Indigenous Wisdom

In this conversation, Tiokasin Ghosthorse brings a Lakota perspective on intuition, consciousness, our relationship with Earth and the possibility of rediscovering a way of living that modern civilization has largely lost.

69 min · 10 Oct 2026 · 337 views

Falling in Love with the Future

What can twenty years of the Transition movement teach us about creating a different future from the ground up? Rob Hopkins and I explore community-led change, local economies and why rebuilding our collective imagination may be one of the most important steps towards a Third Attractor.

68 min · 28 Sep 2026 · 149 views