Said Dawlabani on Second Sapiens and the Great Shift

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One of sixty-eight. Same opening question, a different world behind the answer.

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Daniel Pinchbeck

Navigating the Great Transition

The Earth Keepers

Is collapse already underway? We discuss tech oligarchs and transhumanism as the second attractor, mutual aid and small quiet networks, civic tools like those of Audrey Tang, AI as helpful and risky, esoteric Christianity, and letting the way find us.

04:32 Biggest obstacles 06:27 Meaning of third attractor 08:46 Inner development and spirit 18:51 Communities, prototypes, scaling 25:40 Systems and governance 27:48 What must happen 31:19 Education and next generations 32:00 Role of AI 34:07 Stories, myth and art 37:37 Shared values and worldviews 42:24 Co-created or emergent 54:33 Hope and optimism 55:23 Vision of the future world 57:13 Closing reflections

Cover of the conversation with Daniel Pinchbeck

About this conversation

What does it take to respond when the planet’s systems are already in collapse?

In this conversation, Said Dawlabani looks at our moment through the lens of Spiral Dynamics and what he calls turquoise science. We talk about planetary boundaries that have already been crossed, and about why the West owes sustainable technology to developing countries.

We also explore the role of AI, the biggest obstacles to change, and how communities and prototypes could scale into something larger. Said speaks about shared values across worldviews, governance, inner development, and education for the next generations.

A grounded conversation about responsibility, and about how each of us can widen our circle of influence.

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